Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 00:23:26 -0700 From: Igor Kuznetsoff, Igor Kuznetsoff To: teres@aiko.com CC: Stewart Ono Grant, The Scheu 'table used to use a Pabst motor. I noticed a reference on someone's website recently (I've looked at so many of late I'm no longer sure which) that a popular Pabst motor is no longer available. It was Manfred Huber that disrecommended using a Pabst in a recent post, but didn't explain why. Does yours have a flywheel-like external rotor, ball bearings or carbon brushes? If it has any of these, that would probably be why Manfred disfavors them. He seems to favor low inertia motors with the bearings & brushes he describes below, and which make sense to me. Perhaps Manfred would comment on this, please. I --- "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" wrote: > Is there any disadvantage to my using the Papst > motor that I own? I think I > picked up one or two anti-Papst hints a while back. > I had bought this motor > new at a liquidation sale, intending to use it "one > day when I do a quality > DIY turntable". > > Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless > toriodal DC motor with > variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that > means. > > Grant > -----Original Message----- > From: MHuber@t-online.de [mailto:MHuber@t-online.de] > Sent: Saturday, 12 February 2000 6:47 AM > To: teres@aiko.com > Subject: Re: [teres] RE: Scheu Bearing > > > Tony, > > >I have priced Maxon motor in 1997 (Sound Practices > type). 5-19 piece price > >was US $67.40. > > This is about the same as what this type costs here > in Germany. > I have chosen to use a somewhat less expensive Motor > from Maxons new > A-MAX line. Tha A-MAX line uses a new construction > that is chaeper to > manufacture and (unfortunately) also looks cheaper. > > The good news is that the new line has more poles, > tighter bearing > tolerances and higher allowable bearing forces. Both > motors use the same > ironless rotor construction, sintered bronze > bearings and precious metal > brushes. > > I had no opportunity to compare the two motors but > I'm pretty sure that > there > will be not much difference sound wise. I'd say > choose what you feel better > with. > > Regards > Manfred > > > ------------------ > Manfred Huber > MHuber@t-online.de > ------------------ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Subject: RE: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:09:41 -0700 From: Schei, Kenneth, Schei, Kenneth To: 'Igor Kuznetsoff'; Jeremy Epstein; Manfred Huber CC: teres@aiko.com; Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella; Allen Wright; Beck, Chris; Bill Mollard; Brian Boehler; Brian Day (h); Chris Brady; Dave Collier (w); George Munger (w); Grant Gassman (h); Grant Sellek; Joe Druley; Jon Lane; Ken Schei (h); Schei, Kenneth; Mitaru, Alex; Peter Boser; Ron Welborne; Steve Zettel; Stewart Ono; Terry Gesualdo; Thom Mackris (w); Thomas Martin (h); Thomas Martin(w) We haven't really settled on a specific motor and probably won't until adequate field tests have been done. The Faulhaber and Pittman motors have been discussed becaused we have them in our possession and have been playing with them. Maxon motors have also been mentioned repeatedly and they also are excellent candidates - I am familiar with them. We need to be on the lookout for surplus sources of these motors because they are pricey when new - in the $100+ range. We should be able to evaluate motors by running them on filtered DC with a simple adjustable voltage control for speed adjustment. If they perform well that way they also will do well on our exotic motor controllers. That way we can develop the motor parallel with the controller, not after. Ken Ken Schei, P.E. Project Engineer Antarctic Support Associates Email address: scheike@asa.org Phone: 303-643-0163 > -----Original Message----- > From: Igor Kuznetsoff [SMTP:gorkuz@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 2:06 PM > To: Jeremy Epstein; Manfred Huber > Cc: teres@aiko.com; Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella; Allen Wright; Beck, > Chris; Bill Mollard; Brian Boehler; Brian Day (h); Chris Brady; Dave > Collier (w); George Munger (w); Grant Gassman (h); Grant Sellek; Igor > Kuznetsoff; Joe Druley; Jon Lane; Ken Schei (h); Ken Schei (w); Mitaru, > Alex; Peter Boser; Ron Welborne; Steve Zettel; Stewart Ono; Terry > Gesualdo; Thom Mackris (w); Thomas Martin (h); Thomas Martin(w) > Subject: Re: Teres-Motor&Supply > > > > --- Jeremy Epstein wrote: > > Manfred Huber wrote: > > > > - Has the group already settled on a specific > > motor? > > > > I think there are some specific motors one list > > member has recommended > > (help me!) also several of us picked up a > > second-best solution, a > > decent/cheap surplus motor. > > Thom picked up some surplus Pittman motors: > > > --- "Schei, Kenneth" wrote: > > > The following are some parameters for the Pittman > > > and Falhauber motors: > > > > > > TURNTABLE MOTORS > > > > > > > 12 VDC > > > > > > > Parameter Units Pittman 8512 Falhauber 2842 > > > > > > > I no-load* Amps 0.22 0.05 > > > > I stall* Amps 2.74 - > > > > Torque Oz-in 5.1 6.88 > > > > Velocity constant RPM/V (~640) 435 > > > > Roter Inertia Oz-in-sec^2 1.3x10^ -4 > 1.8x10^ -4 > > > > > > No-load speed RPM 7729 5100 > > > > > > > A PCB is definitely the way to go. I guess that > > building the circuit > > > on a prototype PCB may be too hard for someone who > > has no experience > > > in this field. > > > > I have not made PCB's but I have read enough about > > it to THINK I could > > do it with some practice. I don't have the sense > > that, once they are > > drawn, burning them is very difficult, it just takes > > a little technique > > and some NASTY chemicals. I guess I am saying, if no > > one else is > > interested in learning how to do this, I am curious > > enough to give it a > > try - just be aware that learning-curve costs will > > be included if I do > > the boards. > > Go for it, Jeremy. Personally, I could easily > breadboard it, but a printed one might be nice. > > I > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com Subject: RE: [teres] Re: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:53:18 -0700 From: Schei, Kenneth, Schei, Kenneth To: 'Manfred Huber'; Chris Brady CC: Allen Wright; Beck, Chris; Bill Mollard; Brian Boehler; Brian Day (h); Dave Collier (w); George Munger (w); Grant Gassman (h); Grant Sellek; Igor Kuznetsoff; Jeremy Epstein; Joe Druley; Jon Lane; Mitaru, Alex; Peter Boser; Ron Welborne; Steve Zettel; Stewart Ono; teres@aiko.com; Terry Gesualdo; Thom Mackris (w); Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella; Thomas Martin (h); Thomas Martin(w) I will check with my son, Elliot, who may have access to assemblers, programmers, and compilers. He is working on an EE degree, and is involved with computer hardware and software development. He may be able to help. Ken Ken Schei, P.E. Project Engineer Antarctic Support Associates Email address: scheike@asa.org Phone: 303-643-0163 > -----Original Message----- > From: MHuber@t-online.de [SMTP:MHuber@t-online.de] > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 8:35 AM > To: Chris Brady > Cc: Allen Wright; Beck, Chris; Bill Mollard; Brian Boehler; Brian Day > (h); Dave Collier (w); George Munger (w); Grant Gassman (h); Grant Sellek; > Igor Kuznetsoff; Jeremy Epstein; Joe Druley; Jon Lane; Ken Schei (h); Ken > Schei (w); Mitaru, Alex; Peter Boser; Ron Welborne; Steve Zettel; Stewart > Ono; teres@aiko.com; Terry Gesualdo; Thom Mackris (w); Thom Mackris / Joan > Panzella; Thomas Martin (h); Thomas Martin(w) > Subject: Re: [teres] Re: Teres-Motor&Supply > > Chris, > > >Right now that is looking like late March. I think that mid April would > >be the soonest that anyone would be able to put a controller to use. > > The new design will be available much earlier then this but it will also > take > time to build the PCB get materials etc. > > >You mention that you need to redesign the circuit. I looked at the > >schematic you provided and was duely impressed. I am curious, > >what changes do you have in mind? > > I have already designed a new, more elegant circuit for the part > of the controller that does the signal conditioning for the reflective > interrupter. > Back then when I designed the first circuit I used the LM311 > because I had it on hand. The new design will use a part that is more > suitable to the task. > > There may also be some changes to the voltage regulator built around the > AD820. > > >I was able to find an inexpensive ($30) kit for a 8051 programmer so > >we should have no problem programming the controllers here in the > >US. > > Great, have you veryfied that it can program the AT89C2051? > This is a flash device while most other programmable MCS51 type > controllers > are eprom based. > > There is a $75 programmer at > http://www.proaxis.com/~iguanalabs/2051prog.htm > > >I also looked around for C compilers and for assemblers. I found a C > >compiler for $155 and an assembler for $45. I don't know what the > current > >state of the software is, but I would be glad to help if possible. I am > >proficient in both C and assembler. > > Is there a demo for that compiler? The compiler I use is the most > efficient > available today. The problem is that there are only about 150 bytes (out > of 2k) > of program memory free. The new compiler has to generate very tight code > or it will run out of memory. > > >Years ago I did a lot of development > >work with micro-controllers so please let me know if I can help. > > Great news! I sure can use some help: > > There is a free C51 compiler at > http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Forum/1353 > You (or other computer literates out there) could try to port my software > to this compiler. If the works out then everybody who is interested could > do > his own modifications to the controller software. > > I have put up a slightly revised version of the source code and schematic > to my homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/MHuber/DCMOT_10.ZIP (preserve > case!) > > This archive contains everything needed to build the controller. > It can be compiled with Keil C51 V4 or later (I use 5.1 at the moment) > There is also a precompiled version included (bin and hex) > This version is still lacking any documentation! > Please contact me if you have questions. > > Regards > Manfred > > ------------------ > Manfred Huber > MHuber@t-online.de > ------------------ > Subject: RE: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:59:26 -0700 From: Schei, Kenneth, Schei, Kenneth To: 'Ron Welborne'; Chris Beck; Jeremy Epstein CC: Manfred Huber; teres@aiko.com; Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella; Allen Wright; Bill Mollard; Brian Boehler; Brian Day (h); Chris Brady; Dave Collier (w); George Munger (w); Grant Gassman (h); Grant Sellek; Igor Kuznetsoff; Joe Druley; Jon Lane; Mitaru, Alex; Peter Boser; Steve Zettel; Stewart Ono; Terry Gesualdo; Thom Mackris (w); Thomas Martin (h); Thomas Martin(w) Ron: Excellent. Count me in if we decide to do boards that way. Even at $18 per board it would be a bargain. I would be willing to help on that project anyway I can. I have access to AutoCad if that is useful. Ken Ken Schei, P.E. Project Engineer Antarctic Support Associates Email address: scheike@asa.org Phone: 303-643-0163 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Welborne [SMTP:wlabs@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 10:22 AM > To: Chris Beck; Jeremy Epstein > Cc: Manfred Huber; teres@aiko.com; Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella; Allen > Wright; Bill Mollard; Brian Boehler; Brian Day (h); Chris Brady; Dave > Collier (w); George Munger (w); Grant Gassman (h); Grant Sellek; Igor > Kuznetsoff; Joe Druley; Jon Lane; Ken Schei (h); Ken Schei (w); Mitaru, > Alex; Peter Boser; Steve Zettel; Stewart Ono; Terry Gesualdo; Thom Mackris > (w); Thomas Martin (h); Thomas Martin(w) > Subject: Re: Teres-Motor&Supply > > > I have circuit board layout software and could do the artwork for the > boards. If you get enough orders to do a run of approximately 25 boards, > then the price to have them professionally made would be less than $10 > each. > At this price the boards would be FR4 glass epoxy with solder-plated 2oz. > copper. For silkscreening, add another ~$3 per board. > > A run of 15 boards would put the price at around $15-$18 each. > > > Ron > > Welborne Labs > wlabs@ix.netcom.com > ph: 303.470.6585 > fax: 303.791.5783 > website --------------- www.welbornelabs.com ----------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris Beck > To: Jeremy Epstein > Cc: Manfred Huber ; ; Thom Mackris / > Joan Panzella ; Allen Wright > ; Bill Mollard ; Brian > Boehler > ; Brian Day (h) ; Chris Brady > ; Dave Collier (w) ; George Munger > (w) > ; Grant Gassman (h) ; Grant Sellek > ; Igor Kuznetsoff ; > Joe > Druley ; Jon Lane ; Ken Schei > (h) > ; Ken Schei (w) ; Mitaru, Alex > ; Peter Boser ; Ron Welborne > ; Steve Zettel ; Stewart Ono > ; Terry Gesualdo ; Thom Mackris > (w) Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 6:35 AM > Subject: Re: Teres-Motor&Supply > > > > Hi, gang. > > > > Regarding the PCB, even lowly Radio Shack has a kit to etch your own > board. The trick is getting the > > artwork done. I beleive the process is straightforward after that. I > seem to remember that once the > > pattern is complete, you copy it onto a transparency, and make two, so > you > can double up for better > > quality of exposure. Tape it over the raw board and expose to light. > Then, you etch the board, removing > > the exposed areas of copper, leaving your traces. Then, you drill all > the > holes, and voila', PC board. > > > > I also remember a company in the US called FAR Circuits, that offered > hundreds of different small > > production PC boards for Amateur Radio hobbiest projects out of the big > magazines such as QST. The > > pricing was VERY reasonable for stuff that could not have been high > volume. I'll have to dig up their > > address. I have purchased boards from them years ago, and found them to > be of good quality. > > > > Chris Beck > > > > > > Subject: RE: [teres] Re: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:11:38 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Kenneth, >I will check with my son, Elliot, who may have access to assemblers, >programmers, and compilers. Great, especially the part on the programmers. I can see no point in changing aver from Keil-C to an other commercial product. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] Re: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:15:23 -0700 From: Jeremy Epstein, Jeremy Epstein To: teres@aiko.com Ron Welborne wrote: > > I have circuit board layout software and could do the artwork for the > boards. If you get enough orders to do a run of approximately 25 boards, > then the price to have them professionally made would be less than $10 each. > At this price the boards would be FR4 glass epoxy with solder-plated 2oz. > copper. For silkscreening, add another ~$3 per board. > > A run of 15 boards would put the price at around $15-$18 each. > > Ron > > Welborne Labs I respectfully withdraw my offer to etch the borads - how could I beat this? -j -- ========================================= Jeremy Epstein .........jepstein@shwd.com ========================================= Subject: [teres] Re: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:18:53 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Ron, >I have circuit board layout software and could do the artwork for the >boards. Thanks for your generous offer! I want to let the group decide how they want to procede but I think it would be great if you did the PCB artwork! >If you get enough orders to do a run of approximately 25 boards, >then the price to have them professionally made would be less than $10 each. >At this price the boards would be FR4 glass epoxy with solder-plated 2oz. >copper. For silkscreening, add another ~$3 per board. >A run of 15 boards would put the price at around $15-$18 each. I think this is the way to go. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: [teres] RE: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:39:49 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Kenneth, >The Faulhaber and Pittman motors have been discussed becaused we have them >in our possession and have been playing with them. I don't know about the Pitman but I regard the Faulhaber 2842 as not suitable for this application. This is because it has grapite brushes and ball bearings. Graphite brushes switch much less smooth than those made of precious metal and Ball bearings generate more noise when compared to sintered bronze bearings. >Maxon motors have also been mentioned repeatedly and they also >are excellent candidates - I am familiar with them. We need to be on the >lookout for surplus sources of these motors because they are pricey when new >- in the $100+ range. I don't know the price in the US but I bought the Maxon 110189 for about $50 direct from Maxon here in Germany. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] RE: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:04:54 -0700 From: Ron Welborne, Ron Welborne To: teres@aiko.com Igor, No, my S/W doesn't do Gerbers, but then my board house doesn't require one...they can work from laser prints or film. Best Regards, Ron Welborne Welborne Labs wlabs@ix.netcom.com ph: 303.470.6585 fax: 303.791.5783 website --------------- www.welbornelabs.com ----------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Igor Kuznetsoff To: Schei, Kenneth ; 'Ron Welborne' ; Chris Beck ; Jeremy Epstein Cc: Manfred Huber ; ; Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella ; Allen Wright ; Bill Mollard ; Brian Boehler ; Brian Day (h) ; Chris Brady ; Dave Collier (w) ; George Munger (w) ; Grant Gassman (h) ; Grant Sellek ; Igor Kuznetsoff ; Joe Druley ; Jon Lane ; Mitaru, Alex ; Peter Boser ; Steve Zettel ; Stewart Ono ; Terry Gesualdo ; Thom Mackris (w) ; Thomas Martin (h) ; Thomas Martin(w) Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:31 AM Subject: [teres] RE: Teres-Motor&Supply > Ron, > Does your circuit board layout software create a > "Gerber file" ? > Igor > > > --- "Schei, Kenneth" wrote: > > Ron: > > > > Excellent. Count me in if we decide to do boards > > that way. Even at $18 per > > board it would be a bargain. I would be willing to > > help on that project > > anyway I can. I have access to AutoCad if that is > > useful. > > > > Ken > > > > Ken Schei, P.E. > > Project Engineer > > Antarctic Support Associates > > Email address: scheike@asa.org > > Phone: 303-643-0163 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ron Welborne [SMTP:wlabs@ix.netcom.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 10:22 AM > > > To: Chris Beck; Jeremy Epstein > > > Cc: Manfred Huber; teres@aiko.com; Thom Mackris / > > Joan Panzella; Allen > > > Wright; Bill Mollard; Brian Boehler; Brian Day > > (h); Chris Brady; Dave > > > Collier (w); George Munger (w); Grant Gassman (h); > > Grant Sellek; Igor > > > Kuznetsoff; Joe Druley; Jon Lane; Ken Schei (h); > > Ken Schei (w); Mitaru, > > > Alex; Peter Boser; Steve Zettel; Stewart Ono; > > Terry Gesualdo; Thom Mackris > > > (w); Thomas Martin (h); Thomas Martin(w) > > > Subject: Re: Teres-Motor&Supply > > > > > > > > > I have circuit board layout software and could do > > the artwork for the > > > boards. If you get enough orders to do a run of > > approximately 25 boards, > > > then the price to have them professionally made > > would be less than $10 > > > each. > > > At this price the boards would be FR4 glass epoxy > > with solder-plated 2oz. > > > copper. For silkscreening, add another ~$3 per > > board. > > > > > > A run of 15 boards would put the price at around > > $15-$18 each. > > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > Welborne Labs > > > wlabs@ix.netcom.com > > > ph: 303.470.6585 > > > fax: 303.791.5783 > > > website --------------- www.welbornelabs.com > > ----------------- > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Chris Beck > > > To: Jeremy Epstein > > > Cc: Manfred Huber ; > > ; Thom Mackris / > > > Joan Panzella ; Allen > > Wright > > > ; Bill Mollard > > ; Brian > > > Boehler > > > ; Brian Day (h) > > ; Chris Brady > > > ; Dave Collier (w) > > ; George Munger > > > (w) > > > ; Grant Gassman (h) > > ; Grant Sellek > > > ; Igor > > Kuznetsoff ; > > > Joe > > > Druley ; Jon Lane > > ; Ken Schei > > > (h) > > > ; Ken Schei (w) > > ; Mitaru, Alex > > > ; Peter Boser > > ; Ron Welborne > > > ; Steve Zettel > > ; Stewart Ono > > > ; Terry Gesualdo > > ; Thom Mackris > > > (w) > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 6:35 AM > > > Subject: Re: Teres-Motor&Supply > > > > > > > > > > Hi, gang. > > > > > > > > Regarding the PCB, even lowly Radio Shack has a > > kit to etch your own > > > board. The trick is getting the > > > > artwork done. I beleive the process is > > straightforward after that. I > > > seem to remember that once the > > > > pattern is complete, you copy it onto a > > transparency, and make two, so > > > you > > > can double up for better > > > > quality of exposure. Tape it over the raw board > > and expose to light. > > > Then, you etch the board, removing > > > > the exposed areas of copper, leaving your > > traces. Then, you drill all > > > the > > > holes, and voila', PC board. > > > > > > > > I also remember a company in the US called FAR > > Circuits, that offered > > > hundreds of different small > > > > production PC boards for Amateur Radio hobbiest > > projects out of the big > > > magazines such as QST. The > > > > pricing was VERY reasonable for stuff that could > > not have been high > > > volume. I'll have to dig up their > > > > address. I have purchased boards from them > > years ago, and found them to > > > be of good quality. > > > > > > > > Chris Beck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com Subject: Re: [teres] RE: Scheu Bearing Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:19:34 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Tony, >I have priced Maxon motor in 1997 (Sound Practices type). 5-19 piece price >was US $67.40. This is about the same as what this type costs here in Germany. I have chosen to use a somewhat less expensive Motor from Maxons new A-MAX line. Tha A-MAX line uses a new construction that is chaeper to manufacture and (unfortunately) also looks cheaper. The good news is that the new line has more poles, tighter bearing tolerances and higher allowable bearing forces. Both motors use the same ironless rotor construction, sintered bronze bearings and precious metal brushes. I had no opportunity to compare the two motors but I'm pretty sure that there will be not much difference sound wise. I'd say choose what you feel better with. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 21:12:06 -0700 From: Sellek, Grant (TSA), Sellek, Grant (TSA) To: 'teres@aiko.com' Is there any disadvantage to my using the Papst motor that I own? I think I picked up one or two anti-Papst hints a while back. I had bought this motor new at a liquidation sale, intending to use it "one day when I do a quality DIY turntable". Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor with variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. Grant -----Original Message----- From: MHuber@t-online.de [mailto:MHuber@t-online.de] Sent: Saturday, 12 February 2000 6:47 AM To: teres@aiko.com Subject: Re: [teres] RE: Scheu Bearing Tony, >I have priced Maxon motor in 1997 (Sound Practices type). 5-19 piece price >was US $67.40. This is about the same as what this type costs here in Germany. I have chosen to use a somewhat less expensive Motor from Maxons new A-MAX line. Tha A-MAX line uses a new construction that is chaeper to manufacture and (unfortunately) also looks cheaper. The good news is that the new line has more poles, tighter bearing tolerances and higher allowable bearing forces. Both motors use the same ironless rotor construction, sintered bronze bearings and precious metal brushes. I had no opportunity to compare the two motors but I'm pretty sure that there will be not much difference sound wise. I'd say choose what you feel better with. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 03:52:50 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Igor, >It was Manfred Huber that disrecommendedusing a >Pabst in a recent post, but didn't explain why. I can not remember having said anything about Pabst motors. I know next to nothing about them. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 04:53:47 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Sellek, >Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor with >variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. I know nothing about this motor but if it is brushless and DC then this means that it has a built in electronic controller that does the switching of the coils which is not a bad thing. But these controllers usually also have an internal feedback loop trying to keep constant speed. In this case the behavior of the motor very much depends on the properties of the internal controller. I certainly can not say if it will sound good or bad. I decided to go with a good quality dc motor because this is a simple linear device with predictable behavior. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: RE: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:16:02 -0700 From: Sellek, Grant (TSA), Sellek, Grant (TSA) To: 'teres@aiko.com' You are corredt, Manfred, it is brushless and DC and has a built-in electronic controller. The motor is attached to a PCB. In reply to Igor, it has no moving external parts. It does feel like there is a lot of "startup torque" needed with one's fingers to manually spin the motor, but I cannot detect any "cogging". Actually I would have thought a brushless motor is an advantage? Grant -----Original Message----- From: MHuber@t-online.de [mailto:MHuber@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2000 9:22 PM To: teres@aiko.com Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Sellek, >Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor with >variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. I know nothing about this motor but if it is brushless and DC then this means that it has a built in electronic controller that does the switching of the coils which is not a bad thing. But these controllers usually also have an internal feedback loop trying to keep constant speed. In this case the behavior of the motor very much depends on the properties of the internal controller. I certainly can not say if it will sound good or bad. I decided to go with a good quality dc motor because this is a simple linear device with predictable behavior. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 10:07:32 -0700 From: Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella, Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella To: teres@aiko.com CC: Micheal Larosa; Stewart Ono All, When I did a reply to all on Igor's e-mail, it generated two instances of the teres list address. I'm not sure why, and this is probably why he reported seeing double posts of his messges. Anyhow, when Chris' brother Bryce was reviewing our thoughts on bearing/platter/motor, you may recall him jumping in immedately on Chris, finishing Chris' sentences for him. Chris reports that it was as if he were hacking into our e-mail. Anyyow, Chris was asking about putting a flywheel on our motor shaft and Bryce said in no uncertain terms absolutely *not*, as it was a *low* inertia motor that we want for this purpose. I can't recall the final analysis at this point, but I suspect that the discussion is in the latter part of the most recent motor digest on the website. The Maxon is a low inertia motor. I haven't researched other motors and therefor can't address them. I'm going on partial vacation for this part of the project and will observe the collective wisdom unfold :-)) Cheers, Thom ----- Original Message ----- From: Igor Kuznetsoff To: Cc: Stewart Ono Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Grant, The Scheu 'table used to use a Pabst motor. I noticed a reference on someone's website recently (I've looked at so many of late I'm no longer sure which) that a popular Pabst motor is no longer available. It was Manfred Huber that disrecommended using a Pabst in a recent post, but didn't explain why. Does yours have a flywheel-like external rotor, ball bearings or carbon brushes? If it has any of these, that would probably be why Manfred disfavors them. He seems to favor low inertia motors with the bearings & brushes he describes below, and which make sense to me. Perhaps Manfred would comment on this, please. I --- "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" wrote: > Is there any disadvantage to my using the Papst > motor that I own? I think I > picked up one or two anti-Papst hints a while back. > I had bought this motor > new at a liquidation sale, intending to use it "one > day when I do a quality > DIY turntable". > > Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless > toriodal DC motor with > variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that > means. > > Grant > -----Original Message----- > From: MHuber@t-online.de [mailto:MHuber@t-online.de] > Sent: Saturday, 12 February 2000 6:47 AM > To: teres@aiko.com > Subject: Re: [teres] RE: Scheu Bearing > > > Tony, > > >I have priced Maxon motor in 1997 (Sound Practices > type). 5-19 piece price > >was US $67.40. > > This is about the same as what this type costs here > in Germany. > I have chosen to use a somewhat less expensive Motor > from Maxons new > A-MAX line. Tha A-MAX line uses a new construction > that is chaeper to > manufacture and (unfortunately) also looks cheaper. > > The good news is that the new line has more poles, > tighter bearing > tolerances and higher allowable bearing forces. Both > motors use the same > ironless rotor construction, sintered bronze > bearings and precious metal > brushes. > > I had no opportunity to compare the two motors but > I'm pretty sure that > there > will be not much difference sound wise. I'd say > choose what you feel better > with. > > Regards > Manfred > > > ------------------ > Manfred Huber > MHuber@t-online.de > ------------------ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 10:12:22 -0700 From: Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella, Thom Mackris / Joan Panzella To: teres@aiko.com CC: Micheal Larosa; Stewart Ono All, When I did a reply to all on Igor's e-mail, it generated two instances of the teres list address. I'm not sure why, and this is probably why he reported seeing double posts of his messges. Anyhow, when Chris' brother Bryce was reviewing our thoughts on bearing/platter/motor, you may recall him jumping in immedately on Chris, finishing Chris' sentences for him. Chris reports that it was as if he were hacking into our e-mail. Anyyow, Chris was asking about putting a flywheel on our motor shaft and Bryce said in no uncertain terms absolutely *not*, as it was a *low* inertia motor that we want for this purpose. I can't recall the final analysis at this point, but I suspect that the discussion is in the latter part of the most recent motor digest on the website. The Maxon is a low inertia motor. I haven't researched other motors and therefor can't address them. I'm going on partial vacation for this part of the project and will observe the collective wisdom unfold :-)) Cheers, Thom ----- Original Message ----- From: Igor Kuznetsoff To: Cc: Stewart Ono Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Grant, The Scheu 'table used to use a Pabst motor. I noticed a reference on someone's website recently (I've looked at so many of late I'm no longer sure which) that a popular Pabst motor is no longer available. It was Manfred Huber that disrecommended using a Pabst in a recent post, but didn't explain why. Does yours have a flywheel-like external rotor, ball bearings or carbon brushes? If it has any of these, that would probably be why Manfred disfavors them. He seems to favor low inertia motors with the bearings & brushes he describes below, and which make sense to me. Perhaps Manfred would comment on this, please. I --- "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" wrote: > Is there any disadvantage to my using the Papst > motor that I own? I think I > picked up one or two anti-Papst hints a while back. > I had bought this motor > new at a liquidation sale, intending to use it "one > day when I do a quality > DIY turntable". > > Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless > toriodal DC motor with > variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that > means. > > Grant > -----Original Message----- > From: MHuber@t-online.de [mailto:MHuber@t-online.de] > Sent: Saturday, 12 February 2000 6:47 AM > To: teres@aiko.com > Subject: Re: [teres] RE: Scheu Bearing > > > Tony, > > >I have priced Maxon motor in 1997 (Sound Practices > type). 5-19 piece price > >was US $67.40. > > This is about the same as what this type costs here > in Germany. > I have chosen to use a somewhat less expensive Motor > from Maxons new > A-MAX line. Tha A-MAX line uses a new construction > that is chaeper to > manufacture and (unfortunately) also looks cheaper. > > The good news is that the new line has more poles, > tighter bearing > tolerances and higher allowable bearing forces. Both > motors use the same > ironless rotor construction, sintered bronze > bearings and precious metal > brushes. > > I had no opportunity to compare the two motors but > I'm pretty sure that > there > will be not much difference sound wise. I'd say > choose what you feel better > with. > > Regards > Manfred > > > ------------------ > Manfred Huber > MHuber@t-online.de > ------------------ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 10:22:38 -0700 From: Kalman Rubinson, Kalman Rubinson To: 'teres@aiko.com' On Sun, 13 Feb 2000, Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote: > Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor with > variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. Same one was used in the DC-motored SOTAs and the HK/Rabco TTs. Probably many others. Kal Subject: RE: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 03:54:08 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Grant, >Actually I would have thought a brushless motor is an advantage? Brushes are a potential source of trouble and for this reason it is a good idea to try to eliminate them. But this is only one aspect of the motor and there are many other important things to take into consideration. Up to now I did not find a brushless motor that I would want to use in place of the Maxon. Most brushless motors are high power / high rpm devices with ball bearings, others use internal control loops that I would rather avoid. Low RPM motors like the Pabst or the original Scheu motor have high inertia. Wearing of the brushes is not a problem with the Maxon motors. There are people out there that use the Maxon with the Platine Verdier. Many of there guys have the motor running 24 hrs a day and report no problems after years of continuous service. I do not say that a TT powered by the Pabst has to sound worse than one using a conventional DC motor. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: [teres] Fwd: RE: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 04:00:16 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com This is a mail I sent to aiko about a week ago. Meanwhile I know that this was too early and a lot of you where not subscribed back then. ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >From: "Manfred Huber" >To: "teres@aiko.com" >Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 17:38:02 +0100 >Reply-To: "Manfred Huber" >Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Subject: RE: Teres-Motor&Supply > Kenneth, >The Faulhaber and Pittman motors have been discussed becaused we have them >in our possession and have been playing with them. I don't know about the Pitman but I regard the Faulhaber 2842 as not suitable for this application. This is because it has grapite brushes and ball bearings. Graphite brushes switch much less smooth than those made of precious metal and Ball bearings generate more noise when compared to sintered bronze bearings. >Maxon motors have also been mentioned repeatedly and they also >are excellent candidates - I am familiar with them. We need to be on the >lookout for surplus sources of these motors because they are pricey when new >- in the $100+ range. I don't know the price in the US but I bought the Maxon 110189 for about $50 direct from Maxon here in Germany. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: RE: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:49:15 -0700 From: Schei, Kenneth, Schei, Kenneth To: 'teres@aiko.com' The Pabst motor also sounds OK to me, but I'm not very familiar with the brushless switching. The Maxon, the Pittmans that Thom and I have bought at Gateway, and my Falhauber are also all good candidates. Incidently the last time I was at Gateway, they had some new Pittmans that were a larger size version of the ones we bought. They run at 24 V. Larger size usually means lower no-load rpm, which is better for our needs. I plan on buying at least one and experimenting with it. I will report when I've done so. Another thing to remember is that even though the motors are powered by DC, the brushes work on the commutator to "switch" the current from one pole to the next, to keep the armature rotating. This switching can lead to magnetic emissions the same as AC. It's just like to old points in older auto ignition systems and you know how they could sound over the car radio. There was some earlier considerations of mounting the motor on the same side as the tone arm to save space. I would recommend against that even with a DC motor. I plan on mounting my motor on the opposite side of the table, diametrically opposite of the cartridge, in the traditional manner. Cheers, Ken Ken Schei, P.E. Project Engineer Antarctic Support Associates Email address: scheike@asa.org Phone: 303-643-0163 > -----Original Message----- > From: MHuber@t-online.de [SMTP:MHuber@t-online.de] > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 3:52 AM > To: teres@aiko.com > Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon > motor > > Sellek, > > >Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor > with > >variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. > > I know nothing about this motor but if it is brushless and DC then this > means that it has a built in electronic controller that does the switching > of the coils which is not a bad thing. But these controllers usually also > have an internal feedback loop trying to keep constant speed. > In this case the behavior of the motor very much depends on the properties > of > the internal controller. I certainly can not say if it will sound good or > bad. > > I decided to go with a good quality dc motor because this is a simple > linear device with predictable behavior. > > Regards > Manfred > > > ------------------ > Manfred Huber > MHuber@t-online.de > ------------------ > Subject: RE: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's affordable Maxon motor Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:04:20 -0700 From: Igor Kuznetsoff, Igor Kuznetsoff To: teres@aiko.com I plan on mounting the motor in a metal housing to shield it instead, and will still place it on the right side, because the entire setup fits more ergonomically & takes up less space in the sandbox this way. It will not end up being very close to the cartridge while it is in play, in any case. Igor --- "Schei, Kenneth" wrote: > The Pabst motor also sounds OK to me, but I'm not > very familiar with the > brushless switching. The Maxon, the Pittmans that > Thom and I have bought at > Gateway, and my Falhauber are also all good > candidates. Incidently the last > time I was at Gateway, they had some new Pittmans > that were a larger size > version of the ones we bought. They run at 24 V. > Larger size usually means > lower no-load rpm, which is better for our needs. I > plan on buying at least > one and experimenting with it. I will report when > I've done so. > > Another thing to remember is that even though the > motors are powered by DC, > the brushes work on the commutator to "switch" the > current from one pole to > the next, to keep the armature rotating. This > switching can lead to > magnetic emissions the same as AC. It's just like > to old points in older > auto ignition systems and you know how they could > sound over the car radio. > There was some earlier considerations of mounting > the motor on the same side > as the tone arm to save space. I would recommend > against that even with a > DC motor. I plan on mounting my motor on the > opposite side of the table, > diametrically opposite of the cartridge, in the > traditional manner. > > Cheers, Ken > > Ken Schei, P.E. > Project Engineer > Antarctic Support Associates > Email address: scheike@asa.org > Phone: 303-643-0163 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MHuber@t-online.de [SMTP:MHuber@t-online.de] > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 3:52 AM > > To: teres@aiko.com > > Subject: Re: [teres] Papst motor OK? was Manfred's > affordable Maxon > > motor > > > > Sellek, > > > > >Is is model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed > brushless toriodal DC motor > > with > > >variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever > that means. > > > > I know nothing about this motor but if it is > brushless and DC then this > > means that it has a built in electronic controller > that does the switching > > of the coils which is not a bad thing. But these > controllers usually also > > have an internal feedback loop trying to keep > constant speed. > > In this case the behavior of the motor very much > depends on the properties > > of > > the internal controller. I certainly can not say > if it will sound good or > > bad. > > > > I decided to go with a good quality dc motor > because this is a simple > > linear device with predictable behavior. > > > > Regards > > Manfred > > > > > > ------------------ > > Manfred Huber > > MHuber@t-online.de > > ------------------ > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Subject: RE: [teres] Fwd: RE: Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:22:05 -0700 From: Fritz Moore, Fritz Moore To: teres@aiko.com I don't know the price in the US but I bought the Maxon 110189 for about $50 direct from Maxon here in Germany. Regards Manfred I am trying to check prices on the Maxon motor from a vender I have have used in the past. The part #110189 has no listing in his part books so I was wondering if anybody knows a US # for this motor or any alternate #s for listing this motor. TheMaxon #s Ive seen tend to be long like2434.970-50.225-217. Thank you, Fritz Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:52:34 -0700 From: Mackris, Thom G., Mackris, Thom G. To: 'teres@aiko.com' Chris just found that one of the four Maxon locations in the USA is in Lafayette, CO - about 8 miles from his house!! He may have already cross-referenced the motor part # as I write this. It wasn't obvious, as the first level showed only two locations. The Lafayette location came up on a link from the Burlingame, CA link. Thom >From Maxon's website: http://www.maxonmotor.com/maxonWorldWide/index.html USA (Mountain Territory) maxon precision motors, inc. 211 North Public Road, Suite 225 US-Lafayette, CO 80026 Tel.: 1-800-865-7540 Fax: 1-650-697-2887 Website: http://www.mpm.maxonmotor.com Contact us via Email -----Original Message----- From: Fritz Moore [mailto:fbmoore@ucdavis.edu] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 1:01 PM To: teres@aiko.com Subject: RE: [teres] Fwd: RE: Teres-Motor&Supply I don't know the price in the US but I bought the Maxon 110189 for about $50 direct from Maxon here in Germany. Regards Manfred I am trying to check prices on the Maxon motor from a vender I have have used in the past. The part #110189 has no listing in his part books so I was wondering if anybody knows a US # for this motor or any alternate #s for listing this motor. TheMaxon #s Ive seen tend to be long like2434.970-50.225-217. Thank you, Fritz Subject: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:01:38 -0700 From: Chris Brady, Chris Brady To: teres@aiko.com; mikeinchandler@home.com; audiodir@gte.net; MHuber@t-online.de I am really jazzed about using Manfreds excellent controller design with the Teres so I have been digging up some info. I called the US Maxxon rep and got prices for the 110189 motor: 1-4 $83.45 5-19 $66.25 20-49 $57.80 These prices seem reasonable, especially if we do a group purchase. I a have faxed copy of the spec's for this motor and it looks like an excellent choice. I also have a catalogue on it's way so that other choices from Maxxon can be considered. Perhaps I can scan some of the relevant pages and put them on the web page. I confirmed that the $29 programmer kit works with the at89c2051 so we have an inexpensive way to program the chips here in the US. I also downloaded and experimented with the free C compiler that Manfred pointed me to. I have the C code ported and I am working on porting the assembler. It looks like the free compiler will be suitable, but the documentation is poor. If there is enough interest I would be willing to put together motor/controller kits for the group. I envision that the kit would include: - A Maxxon 110189 motor - A precision machined pulley (from Bryce) - A printed circuit board (from Ron Wellborn) - A pre-programmed at89c2051 (code supplied by Manfred, programed by me) - All of the other electronic parts (caps, IC's resistors, etc) - Basic instructions - An AC transformer By doing a group purchase we would save big time on the pulley and circuit boards. There would also be a savings of 10-15% for the other components if we are doing 20+ kits. This would also help with the shipping costs and minimum order problems when you have to source parts from 4 - 5 different vendors. I am generous but not crazy so I would expect to make a little on each kit to cover some of my time investment. But even with my charge the kit price would be less than the cost of doing an individual purchase. I also feel that Manfred should receive some compensation for his generous sharing of the controller design. Perhaps some extra circuit boards? How many would be interested? Comments? Chris Subject: RE: [teres] Motors, fields and noise in TT's, Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:51:13 -0700 From: Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au, Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au To: teres@aiko.com Distance is cheaper than shielding, but how much space do you have. 'magnetic fields never die they just fade away'. Stray capacitance, and earthy currents along metal surfaces are another thing though! I think that sometimes us 'phonophiles' are like the Irishman who explained to the priest that he kept hitting himself on the head with his shillelagh because 'it feels so good when I stop'. Tim B **************************************************************** NOTICE - This message is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action based upon it. If you received this message in error please notify Medibank Private Ltd immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Medibank Private Ltd. **************************************************************** Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:57:55 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Chris, I want to thank you for helping us to get the controller project going. This is really great news! >I confirmed that the $29 programmer kit works with the at89c2051 >so we have an inexpensive way to program the chips here in the US. Is there a location on the net where I can have a look at the programmer? >I also downloaded and experimented with the free C compiler that >Manfred pointed me to. I have the C code ported and I am working >on porting the assembler. It looks like the free compiler will >be suitable, but the documentation is poor. Hey! This is great! Please email me the modified code when you are done with porting. I will test it then. > - A precision machined pulley (from Bryce) I use a 1/2" pulley. The belt is made of 1/4" magnetic tape. >I also feel that Manfred should receive some compensation for his generous >sharing of the controller design. Perhaps some extra circuit boards? No compensation required but if I could have one or two bare PCBs it would be appreciated. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:58:11 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Bill, >Manfred had suggested there was another, less expensive... and unglier... >motor that incorporated tighter tolerences, etc. > >Is this other motor a consideration? Chris is talking about the cheaper motor! Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:58:31 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Kenneth, >If we use a 1/2" diameter pulley...,the motor rpm would be 33.33 X 12.28 X 2 = 818.58 rpm. > 818.58 / 180 = 4.55 volts I also use a 1/2" pulley. After having tried several different diameters this worked out as the best compromise. The actual voltage at 33rpm is more like 6V or so. This is due to the high damping of the Scheu bearing. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 13:56:57 -0700 From: steve brooks, steve brooks To: teres@aiko.com I was wondering about that..in rereading the motor article in SP #10 I noticed the author found the Maxon #2326-942-12-111-050 to be the Best choice..according to the article the cost is $231.10 in single quantity (1995 prices) . Is there an advantage to this unit? Also in that article I noticed 2 other cool things. One is how these guys enclose their motors...very sexy and I'm sure completely custom machined. One gentleman (Christian Rintelen) even attatched his directly to the wall behind his table...makes sense for isolation. And the base (the Platine guys are very serious)..I noticed one that looked as if it was made out of concrete or some composite material (maybe those are marble chips floating around as aggregate) How hard would it be to make a mold and pour our own bases? I saw someone make a bathtub out of a mold and a composite goo...of course they already had the mold! If it's ok with papa Joe I'd be happy to post those photos to the list... Steve Brooks >>Manfred had suggested there was another, less expensive... and unglier... >>motor that incorporated tighter tolerences, etc. >> >>Is this other motor a consideration? > > Chris is talking about the cheaper motor! > Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply /Oops Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:43:29 -0700 From: Igor Kuznetsoff, Igor Kuznetsoff To: teres@aiko.com --- steve brooks wrote: > I was wondering about that..in rereading the motor > article in SP #10 I > noticed the author found the Maxon > #2326-942-12-111-050 to be the Best > choice.. Manfred, Sorry for the misquote about the Pabst. That's what happens when I look at too many pieces of info on the same subject in one night. The above article is where the "disreccommendation" came from. Dr. Gotz Wilimzig, under item #3, the very one quoted above, toward the end of the article, says "Avoid Pabst." . No explanation is given. Igor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 16:21:04 -0700 From: Roscoe Primrose, Roscoe Primrose To: teres@aiko.com Anya & Fred Humphrey wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Brady" > To: ; ; ; > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 4:59 PM > Subject: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > > > I am really jazzed about using Manfreds excellent controller > > design with the Teres so I have been digging up some info. > snipped > > I called the US Maxxon rep and got prices for the 110189 motor: > Chris > Hi, Chris - count me in for the motor kit. It sounds like a great way to get > into precision dc drive for the Teres. But I'm also determined to try the > Wien bridge oscillator, amp, 1/100 hp synchronous motor, rim- drive route. > All those reviews of Garrards and EMT's with tight motor to platter coupling > have got me curious. > Fred Where do you source such a motor, I too may be interested, but may try it with string/tape drive... Peace -- Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe "Once in a while you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter "640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981 Subject: RE: [teres] Motor-pulley attachment Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:22:58 -0700 From: Sellek, Grant (TSA), Sellek, Grant (TSA) To: 'teres@aiko.com' What's the normal method for attaching the pulley to the motor? I have a motor, but will be looking for a pulley. Should it be a push-on fit? This means I have to find a pulley with exactly the right size of hole ( I am thinking of trying the hobby shops). I need a one inch diameter pulley. Grant Grant Sellek Adelaide, Australia grant.sellek@transport.sa.gov.au > -----Original Message----- > From: MHuber@t-online.de [mailto:MHuber@t-online.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2000 4:26 am > Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > > >If we use a 1/2" diameter pulley...,the motor rpm would be > 33.33 X 12.28 X 2 = 818.58 rpm. > > 818.58 / 180 = 4.55 volts > > I also use a 1/2" pulley. After having tried several > different diameters this worked out > as the best compromise. Subject: RE: [teres] Motor-pulley attachment Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:06:00 -0700 From: Kalman Rubinson, Kalman Rubinson To: 'teres@aiko.com' On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote: > What's the normal method for attaching the pulley to the motor? I have a > motor, but will be looking for a pulley. Should it be a push-on fit? This > means I have to find a pulley with exactly the right size of hole ( I am > thinking of trying the hobby shops). I need a one inch diameter pulley. Most are push-on. We did similar when we machined a pulley for the 24vac Papst motor I am using now. Kal Subject: Re: [teres] Motor-pulley attachment Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 19:31:21 -0700 From: Chris Brady, Chris Brady To: teres@aiko.com I understand that it is crucial that the pulley be concentric to not introduce "wow". Using any sort of set screw would produce eccentricity so the pulley should have a friction fit. Finding a ready made pulley with sufficient precision may be difficult. Chris "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" wrote: > > What's the normal method for attaching the pulley to the motor? I have a > motor, but will be looking for a pulley. Should it be a push-on fit? This > means I have to find a pulley with exactly the right size of hole ( I am > thinking of trying the hobby shops). I need a one inch diameter pulley. > > Grant > > Grant Sellek > Adelaide, Australia > grant.sellek@transport.sa.gov.au > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MHuber@t-online.de [mailto:MHuber@t-online.de] > > Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2000 4:26 am > > Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > > > > >If we use a 1/2" diameter pulley...,the motor rpm would be > > 33.33 X 12.28 X 2 = 818.58 rpm. > > > 818.58 / 180 = 4.55 volts > > > > I also use a 1/2" pulley. After having tried several > > different diameters this worked out > > as the best compromise. Subject: Re: [teres] Motor-pulley attachment Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:12:43 -0700 From: Kalman Rubinson, Kalman Rubinson To: teres@aiko.com On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Chris Brady wrote: > I understand that it is crucial that the pulley be concentric to not > introduce "wow". Using any sort of set screw would produce eccentricity > so the pulley should have a friction fit. Finding a ready made pulley with > sufficient precision may be difficult. Actually, we drilled the fitting hole first and machined the outer circumference with reference to it. Kal Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:29:18 -0700 From: Anya & Fred Humphrey, Anya & Fred Humphrey To: teres@aiko.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roscoe Primrose" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > Anya & Fred Humphrey wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Brady" > > To: ; ; ; > > > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 4:59 PM > > Subject: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > > > > > I am really jazzed about using Manfreds excellent controller > > > design with the Teres so I have been digging up some info. > > snipped > > > I called the US Maxxon rep and got prices for the 110189 motor: > > Chris > > Hi, Chris - count me in for the motor kit. It sounds like a great way to get > > into precision dc drive for the Teres. But I'm also determined to try the > > Wien bridge oscillator, amp, 1/100 hp synchronous motor, rim- drive route. > > All those reviews of Garrards and EMT's with tight motor to platter coupling > > have got me curious. > > Fred > > Where do you source such a motor, I too may be interested, but may try > it with string/tape drive... > > Peace > -- > Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- > http://www.aiko.com/roscoe Roscoe, mine came off of old 1950's transcription TT's from a Toronto radio station. They're massive: about 8" long, maybe 3" diameter, 5 or 6 lbs. I'll get out to the shed in a day or two and check manufacturer and model # for you. Fred Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:55:58 -0700 From: Anya & Fred Humphrey, Anya & Fred Humphrey To: teres@aiko.com; mikeinchandler@home.com; audiodir@gte.net; MHuber@t-online.de ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Brady" To: ; ; ; Here are the final prices for the bearing and platter. Bryce decided > to make a custom nut to fasten the bearing to the base. Nice touch. Thank you and thank Bryce. > Please send a money order for at least 50% of the total price (full > payment would be preferred) ASAP. It will go out in the morning, in full. > Please send money orders to: > > Chris Brady > 2190 Snowmass Cr > Broomfield, CO 80020 > > The shipping is UPS ground for those in the continental US and USPS > for the rest. If anyone would rather have their order shipped via > USPS there will be an extra $10.00 surcharge in addition to a small > increase in the shipping charge (USPS is more expensive). UPS will be fine. > Again, thank you for all your hard work on this, Chris. And a double thanks for your work on the motor/controller/pulley. Count me in for a kit, too. Best regards, Steve Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:04:00 -0700 From: Sellek, Grant (TSA), Sellek, Grant (TSA) To: 'teres@aiko.com' Yes I would also ask if the controller would work with my Papst DC motor: it runs at 400-600rpm and seems to be a different design to the Maxon. It is called model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor with variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. Would the controller work with this? Grant -----Original Message----- From: Anya & Fred Humphrey Manfred and Chris, I'm wondering if the controller would work with other DC precision motors. I just found a Maxxon 2132.906-11.321 in my junk box, and somewhere I have a very small motor from another Swiss company. Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:54:32 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Fred, >I'm wondering if the controller would work with other DC >precision motors. I just found a Maxxon 2132.906-11.321 in my junk box, and >somewhere I have a very small motor from another Swiss company. I don't have data for the above mentioned Maxon motor. It looks like it is a member of the F-Series. These motors are built to a lower standard. They use Ferrite magnets while most other Maxon motors use AlNiCo. This leads to a physically bigger motor with higher inertia. I also think that the ".906" in the type number means that this is a 3V motor. It will probably run the TT at about 1V. My controller as it is now is not able to handle this low voltage properly. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:57:06 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Grant, >Yes I would also ask if the controller would work with my Papst DC motor: it >runs at 400-600rpm and seems to be a different design to the Maxon. It is >called model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor with >variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. > >Would the controller work with this? Is the motor speed controlled by the applied voltage or is it set by a pot on the motor electronics board? If it is controlled by voltage and the voltage needed is in the range of 3V to 12V then it can be used with my controller. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: Re: [teres] Motor contol info... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 05:07:51 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Roscoe, >Those of you involved in designing the motor controller may want to look >at: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/psheets/bpra044/bpra044.pdf Very interesting reading. Thanks for the pointer. Unfortunately it would take much time to design a controller on this principle and the resulting motor unit would be much more expensive than my 'simple' controller. Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:23:55 -0700 From: Schei, Kenneth, Schei, Kenneth To: 'teres@aiko.com' Manfred: 6V for 33 rpm makes sense. Maxon's 180 rpm/V is the no-load speed-voltage ratio. That can be confirmed by dividing the maximum no-load speed by the maximum rated voltage: 6450 rpm / 36V = 179.17 rpm/V. I like the 110189 as a choice for our application. Ken Ken Schei, P.E. Project Engineer Antarctic Support Associates Email address: scheike@asa.org Phone: 303-643-0163 > -----Original Message----- > From: MHuber@t-online.de [SMTP:MHuber@t-online.de] > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 10:56 AM > To: teres@aiko.com > Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > > Kenneth, > > >If we use a 1/2" diameter pulley...,the motor rpm would be 33.33 X 12.28 > X 2 = 818.58 rpm. > > 818.58 / 180 = 4.55 volts > > I also use a 1/2" pulley. After having tried several different diameters > this worked out > as the best compromise. The actual voltage at 33rpm is more like 6V or so. > This is due > to the high damping of the Scheu bearing. > > Regards > Manfred > > > ------------------ > Manfred Huber > MHuber@t-online.de > ------------------ > Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:24:07 -0700 From: Kalman Rubinson, Kalman Rubinson To: 'teres@aiko.com' On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, Sellek, Grant (TSA) wrote: > Yes I would also ask if the controller would work with my Papst DC motor: it > runs at 400-600rpm and seems to be a different design to the Maxon. It is > called model GS 38.09 "two-phase low speed brushless toriodal DC motor with > variable reluctance auxiliary torque". Whatever that means. > > Would the controller work with this? The GS38.09 has an inbuilt controller. Kal Subject: Re: [teres] AC Synch motor... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:26:10 -0700 From: Kalman Rubinson, Kalman Rubinson To: teres@aiko.com On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Roscoe Primrose wrote: > OK all you motor experts... How does this one look for an AC controlled > motor? Runs at only 300RPM on 60Hz, nice and sloooooww. > > http://www.pulsemotor-usa.com/PTMSpecs.cfm?id=2 Nice. Is there any info on starting torque? Kal Subject: [teres] Re: Motor info Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:11:10 -0700 From: Kalman Rubinson, Kalman Rubinson To: Jeremy Epstein CC: teres On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, Jeremy Epstein wrote: > I wonder if the Pabst will work with the new table - I would need to use > the whole control circuit from the old table I suppose? How hard do you > think it would be to graft the old ST-7 arm on the Teres? Hmm. Is this > harder than starting from scratch . . . . The GS38.09 motor/controller will run the Teres but the pulley will have to be changed. (Is the Teres platter 12" OD? If so, the SOTA pulley should work just fine.) However, the arm runs on a belt from the ST-7 lower bearing pulley and this make it unlikely that you can 'graft' it onto the Teres unless you developed another motor drive for it. Is the motor on your ST-7 running on speed? Kal P.S. I CC:ed this to Teres in case anyone else finds it relevant. Subject: RE: [teres] Re: Motor info Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:30:38 -0700 From: Mackris, Thom G., Mackris, Thom G. To: 'teres@aiko.com' The Teres platter outer diameter is 12.28". For the late comers, this ended up being is close to Scheu's platter diameter (I forget Scheu's dimensions). The diameter was selected compatibility with Merrill's periphery clamp. Thom -----Original Message----- From: Kalman Rubinson [mailto:kr4@is2.nyu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 10:11 AM To: Jeremy Epstein Cc: teres Subject: [teres] Re: Motor info On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, Jeremy Epstein wrote: > I wonder if the Pabst will work with the new table - I would need to use > the whole control circuit from the old table I suppose? How hard do you > think it would be to graft the old ST-7 arm on the Teres? Hmm. Is this > harder than starting from scratch . . . . The GS38.09 motor/controller will run the Teres but the pulley will have to be changed. (Is the Teres platter 12" OD? If so, the SOTA pulley should work just fine.) However, the arm runs on a belt from the ST-7 lower bearing pulley and this make it unlikely that you can 'graft' it onto the Teres unless you developed another motor drive for it. Is the motor on your ST-7 running on speed? Kal P.S. I CC:ed this to Teres in case anyone else finds it relevant. Subject: RE: [teres] Re: Motor info Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:01:59 -0700 From: Kalman Rubinson, Kalman Rubinson To: 'teres@aiko.com' On Wed, 16 Feb 2000, Mackris, Thom G. wrote: > The Teres platter outer diameter is 12.28". Thanks. That's about a 2.3% increase over 12" which places it on the edge of compatibility for the normal trimmers on the GS38.09. However, it should be fine if the coarse control on the PCB is reset. Kal Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:06:43 -0700 From: Schei, Kenneth, Schei, Kenneth To: 'teres@aiko.com' I, too, like Manfred's expertice in the motor/controller area. I think we are in good hands. Ken Ken Schei, P.E. Project Engineer Antarctic Support Associates Email address: scheike@asa.org Phone: 303-643-0163 > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Zettel [SMTP:zettel@libby.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 10:05 AM > To: teres@aiko.com > Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > > on 2/16/00 07:33, Schei, Kenneth at SCHEIKE@asa.org wrote: > > > Manfred: > > > > 6V for 33 rpm makes sense. Maxon's 180 rpm/V is the no-load > speed-voltage > > ratio. That can be confirmed by dividing the maximum no-load speed by > the > > maximum rated voltage: 6450 rpm / 36V = 179.17 rpm/V. I like the > 110189 as > > a choice for our application. > > > > Ken > > I would second Ken's always considered and well-thought out analysis. > > BTW, though I was taking more of an active role in the bearing/platter > design, and Ken and I were "nominated" as the leads in the > motor/controller > phase, I am more than content to take a big step back and admire Manfred's > and the rest of the "heavy hitters'" expertise. Bravo! > > Perhaps I will have more to contribute to subchassis design, though that > seems to be highly personal. One damped layer of Corian (tm) or two layers > with damping constrained between comes to mind. A cheap source of slabs of > this somewhat pricy stuff is the cutouts made for sinks in countertops. > Even > my local counter and cabinet shop in little Libby, MT has several on hand > for next to nothing. > > Steve Subject: Re: [teres] AC Synch motor... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:35:03 -0700 From: Roscoe Primrose, Roscoe Primrose To: teres@aiko.com Kalman Rubinson wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Roscoe Primrose wrote: > > > OK all you motor experts... How does this one look for an AC controlled > > motor? Runs at only 300RPM on 60Hz, nice and sloooooww. > > > > http://www.pulsemotor-usa.com/PTMSpecs.cfm?id=2 > > Nice. Is there any info on starting torque? > > Kal Not that I could find, but it could always be push started... The site does say the motors are internally impeadance protected and can be stalled indefinately w/o damage... Peace -- Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe "Once in a while you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter "640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981 Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:05:15 -0700 From: Stanley Goudge, Stanley Goudge To: teres@aiko.com; teres@aiko.com; mikeinchandler@home.com; audiodir@gte.net; MHuber@t-online.de Hi guys, found some stuff that looks interesting. I bet we can do better than the Origin motor kit, at least in terms of costs, $400 + shipping, ouch, must be good. Stan Goudge Cisco Systems 512 378 1505 http://www.mfg-net.com/reflib/tutorial4.asp http://www.originlive.com/upgrades.htm P.S. You guys still there, haven't received any email for days. At 02:59 PM 2/14/2000 -0700, Chris Brady wrote: >I am really jazzed about using Manfreds excellent controller >design with the Teres so I have been digging up some info. > >I called the US Maxxon rep and got prices for the 110189 motor: > > 1-4 $83.45 > 5-19 $66.25 > 20-49 $57.80 > >These prices seem reasonable, especially if we do a group >purchase. I a have faxed copy of the spec's for this motor and >it looks like an excellent choice. I also have a catalogue on it's >way so that other choices from Maxxon can be considered. Perhaps >I can scan some of the relevant pages and put them on the web page. > >I confirmed that the $29 programmer kit works with the at89c2051 >so we have an inexpensive way to program the chips here in the US. > >I also downloaded and experimented with the free C compiler that >Manfred pointed me to. I have the C code ported and I am working >on porting the assembler. It looks like the free compiler will >be suitable, but the documentation is poor. > >If there is enough interest I would be willing to put together >motor/controller kits for the group. I envision that the kit >would include: > > - A Maxxon 110189 motor > - A precision machined pulley (from Bryce) > > - A printed circuit board (from Ron Wellborn) > - A pre-programmed at89c2051 (code supplied by Manfred, > programed by me) > - All of the other electronic parts (caps, IC's resistors, etc) > - Basic instructions > - An AC transformer > >By doing a group purchase we would save big time on the pulley and >circuit boards. There would also be a savings of 10-15% for the other >components if we are doing 20+ kits. This would also help with >the shipping costs and minimum order problems when you have to source >parts from 4 - 5 different vendors. > >I am generous but not crazy so I would expect to make a little on >each kit to cover some of my time investment. But even with my charge >the kit price would be less than the cost of doing an individual >purchase. I also feel that Manfred should receive some compensation >for his generous sharing of the controller design. Perhaps some extra >circuit boards? > >How many would be interested? Comments? > >Chris > Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 02:24:08 -0700 From: Manfred Huber, Manfred Huber To: teres@aiko.com Stan, >Hi guys, found some stuff that looks interesting. I bet we can do better than the Origin motor kit, at least in terms of costs, >$400 + shipping, ouch, must be good. Both the motor and the control board look like toys when compared to our solution. Note that this implementation does not sense the actual speed of the platter. >http://www.mfg-net.com/reflib/tutorial4.asp Thanks for the pointer. Very interesting reading. Note that the Maxon motor has that capacitor disk attached to the commutator. Maxon calls this the CLL-System (capacitor long life) There is one thing that is important in our application and is not mentioned in this article: The sleeve bearing used in our motor (and any sleeve bearing) needs a certain *minimum* rotational speed for the lubrication mechanism to work. I learned from a Maxon applications engineer that 500rpm is the absolute minimum, 1000rpm is preferable. Operating the TT at 33 rpm with a 1/2" pulley means that the motor is running at about 800rpm. This is why I don't recommend the use of a pulley with a diameter of more than 1/2" Regards Manfred ------------------ Manfred Huber MHuber@t-online.de ------------------ Subject: RE: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:16:38 -0700 From: Stanley Goudge, Stanley Goudge To: Mackris, Thom G.; 'teres@aiko.com' Hi guys, Still in the dark here about whats been discussed, still no email in 4 days now. But I've been digging around a little, (when the boss ain't around) and found some info on a good transformer for the dc p/s. I believe that Signal Transformer PN A41-25-16 would be an excellent choice. These units have high isolation as described by Gary Galo in Audio Amateur vol.26 no.4, mainly due to the dual bobbin design and 4K Hipot rating. They also have dual primaries for 120/220 vac service and dual secondarys for multiple outputs. And their cheap 35% discount for >25 pc = about $10. Anybody find out were to get the philips motors used in the Orginlive motor kit? Thanks, Stan At 01:27 PM 2/17/2000 -0700, Mackris, Thom G. wrote: >Thanks for that tutorial, Stan. You definitely posted to the list, so >you're subscribed. In the event that you're having problems receiving >e-mail from majordomo, I'm copying you redundantly on this response. > >I've had some server problems here at my work address this week, and Roscoe >performed server maintenance earlier in the week and brought down the server >for about 15 hours. I suspect sun-spots, full moon, etc. as these were >coincidental events. > >Because I'm subscribed at home, I didn't miss some mails when my work e-mail >burped. Apparently, majordomo does not try to do re-sends when the e-mail >bounces. I will be putting together a couple of digests for the website >this weekend (a motor digest and a bearing/subchassis digest), so you'll be >able to catch up then. > >Cheers, >Thom > >-----Original Message----- >From: Stanley Goudge [mailto:sgoudge@cisco.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 12:59 PM >To: teres@aiko.com; teres@aiko.com; mikeinchandler@home.com; >audiodir@gte.net; MHuber@t-online.de >Subject: Re: [teres] Teres-Motor&Supply > > >Hi guys, found some stuff that looks interesting. I bet we can do better >than the Origin motor kit, at least in terms of costs, >$400 + shipping, ouch, must be good. > >Stan Goudge >Cisco Systems >512 378 1505 > >http://www.mfg-net.com/reflib/tutorial4.asp >http://www.originlive.com/upgrades.htm > >P.S. You guys still there, haven't received any email for days. > > >At 02:59 PM 2/14/2000 -0700, Chris Brady wrote: >>I am really jazzed about using Manfreds excellent controller >>design with the Teres so I have been digging up some info. >> >>I called the US Maxxon rep and got prices for the 110189 motor: >> >> 1-4 $83.45 >> 5-19 $66.25 >> 20-49 $57.80 >> >>These prices seem reasonable, especially if we do a group >>purchase. I a have faxed copy of the spec's for this motor and >>it looks like an excellent choice. I also have a catalogue on it's >>way so that other choices from Maxxon can be considered. Perhaps >>I can scan some of the relevant pages and put them on the web page. >> >>I confirmed that the $29 programmer kit works with the at89c2051 >>so we have an inexpensive way to program the chips here in the US. >> >>I also downloaded and experimented with the free C compiler that >>Manfred pointed me to. I have the C code ported and I am working >>on porting the assembler. It looks like the free compiler will >>be suitable, but the documentation is poor. >> >>If there is enough interest I would be willing to put together >>motor/controller kits for the group. I envision that the kit >>would include: >> >> - A Maxxon 110189 motor >> - A precision machined pulley (from Bryce) >> >> - A printed circuit board (from Ron Wellborn) >> - A pre-programmed at89c2051 (code supplied by Manfred, >> programed by me) >> - All of the other electronic parts (caps, IC's resistors, etc) >> - Basic instructions >> - An AC transformer >> >>By doing a group purchase we would save big time on the pulley and >>circuit boards. There would also be a savings of 10-15% for the other >>components if we are doing 20+ kits. This would also help with >>the shipping costs and minimum order problems when you have to source >>parts from 4 - 5 different vendors. >> >>I am generous but not crazy so I would expect to make a little on >>each kit to cover some of my time investment. But even with my charge >>the kit price would be less than the cost of doing an individual >>purchase. I also feel that Manfred should receive some compensation >>for his generous sharing of the controller design. Perhaps some extra >>circuit boards? >> >>How many would be interested? Comments? >> >>Chris >>